“‘Everybody who decides to pursue art suddenly becomes an artist,’ they call themselves an artist. I cannot use it; it’s such a heavy word,” quotes my interviewee. I may have over-prepared myself for an interview but I find myself easing in to a candid chat with Saim; approachable, cordial and extremely humble for an award winner. He sheds some light on Darling, the first award winning short film at the Venice Film Festival and more.

How does it feel to claim the first Orizzonti Award in Pakistan to your name?

Feels weird (laughs). It hasn’t sunk in yet. It feels surreal.

How did the storyline find you?

Three years ago I started writing a feature film script Gulaab with Sabiha Sumar, the producer. One character in the film is a trans-person, a dancer in a mujra theatre. When I started researching, I found a real life story and the script changed completely. When it came to doing my thesis I wanted to do a proof of concept, not the same story but thematically similar to the feature, it’s a very quick experiential film about two people on one day. It’s just felt like the right fit for a short film format.

How do you think the win will affect Gulaab?

I think it opens doors. I am a new director, no one has really seen anything that I have done, the win especially for a concept film adds validation to the feature film. Moreover, it brings Pakistani cinema in the film festival circuit which has not been the case in the longest time. There are films that are being made here that are not commercial and more artistically talk about serious things so the world kind of takes notice for a little bit.

What’s the takeaway from Darling?

It opens this possibility of asking questions about sexuality, we can have characters that are confused and figuring things out, and that not everybody in Pakistan ascribes to the same heteronormative culture.

I came across an interview you did where you said that this film is a protest. Could you expand on that?

It’s rebellious in what it does; the fact that it exists and has gotten this kind of recognition coming out of Pakistan is what perplexed people the most. Plus giving screen time and space to things that are never spoken about feels like a protest.

What social challenges did you face working with a community and culture that the masses don’t recognise as a part of themselves?

It started with just auditioning trans girls. We auditioned about 50 people and whenever we auditioned, we spoke to them. I took something away from every audition. The mujra culture was harder because it’s an industry and there has been violence against the dancers, their initial reluctance of not wanting to talk was understandable. We had to shake up contacts in theatre for research. What I did try to do but was not possible was talk to some of the men who had come to watch. On some level, the one thing about these women is that they are not ashamed, but the men are. It’s a surreal place.

Speaking to filmmakers before, I have observed a pattern – the ideas that come from them sound well-thought out but they lack in execution. Why do you think that is?

I only partially agree with the whole “it’s a new industry, give it some time”. They are not trying to do anything new, they are so derivative. Nobody is really trying to tell a story, it is too much about appeasing an audience. We do not care about storytelling or the themes we are tackling. The TV conglomerates are making films, they are like dramas with a bigger production scale. Our TV is not great but it has a language but the TV drama does not work – films require a bigger structure for writing.

Do you think a win like this one will affect the revival of Pakistani cinema?

Honestly, no because it is not like somebody was trying to do this kind of work. I don’t know how willing a big production house would be to fund my film, they are going to say “great, we are happy for you and bye.” Unless more independent productions join forces and make films that get recognition so we can make our own lane, which is very possible because we don’t know what Pakistani cinema is or can be, it’s so recent.

What did Darling teach you?

The power of goodwill. It was made in a lot of good will from a lot of people; it was such a risky project and it had a big production budget for a short film.

Do you plan on bringing your direction chair to Pakistan full-time?

I would not say this industry because they do a very particular kind of work which I do not want to do. I don’t look down upon it, it has a complete right to exist but I just do not want to do it. I have no plans to cut myself off from Pakistan at all, I want to work here.

Do you think filmmakers want to make films about important subjects but fear the audience will not be receptive of it?

I think it is both. We self-censor a lot, I did too. Before Darling, I said no to the idea but then I thought why not? I think Iran does a great job to talk about everything, they found a way to talk around it so that it would not get banned.

As a director, how important do you think it is to criticise yourself?

It is very important but I have to say, you have to be a certain amount of foolish and ignorant. Because there are as many critics as there are people, but you can’t listen to everything. You will make the film trying to please everybody but not the one that you want to make. But at the same time to improve, you have to be open to healthy constructive criticism.